After one of the sparring sessions a newspaper ran the headline "Greb makes Dempsey look like a kitten!" Apparently Greb attacked Dempsey like a wildcat, made him miss with his hooks and in one of the sparring sessions split Dempsey's tongue. According to all the reports I have read Dempsey got the worst of it and this was Dempsey in prime shape ready to face Billy Miske in a 1920 heavyweight title defense.
I think that the sessions prevented Greb from ever getting a shot at Dempsey, I don't know if Dempsey would have avoided Greb but I have heard that Jack "Doc" Kearns wanted Dempsey to have no part of Greb after that, they never even sparred again to my knowledge.
For the remainder of his career Greb tried to get a fight with Dempsey but he was ignored. I guess Dempsey and his people felt that they had nothing to win and everything to lose, if Dempsey won he had beaten a smaller man, if he lost then it would be a long climb back to the top. Greb was certainly worthy of a shot as he holds wins over Dempsey opponents Meehan, Smith, Brennan, Miske, Gibbons and Tunney.
A fight between the two would have been very interesting and it would likely have been filmed as most of Dempsey's defenses were.
The series of sparring did ignite Greb to challenge Jack for the HW title and the latter to decline. Harry kind of measured Dempsey's strength and weaknesses akin to when Holmes had those sparring sessions with the great Ali. While Ali gave and grant Larry a match in the ring, Dempsey refused.
Do you think the sparring sessions convinced Dempsey not to give Greb a title shot?
While Greb was more than willing to fight Dempsey for the title shot, hesitance lurked in for Jack or Greb will just simply all over him
I don't think I've ever read anything involving Dempsey and Greb, that didn't suggest that Dempsey wanted no part of Greb. It could be argued that a sparring session does not dictate an actual fight and that a fight would be drastically different. However, I think this type of thinking comes from the camps of the fighter with the most to lose. In some cases, it could be true. In other cases it might be less than true.
Two potential fights come to mind for me. Leonard vs Pryor and Tyson vs McCall. I often read that Sugar Ray Leonard ducked Aaron Pryor. If you look at Leonard's schedule, during the times he could have fought Pryor, it splits the argument down the middle. Pryor won the jr. welterweight title in 1980. Leonard fought Benitez, Duran and Hearns between 79 and 81, then retired due to a detached retina. Certainly Pryor was no where near the 147 lb. division when Leonard beat Benitez. And Duran and Hearns certainly brings in more money than Pryor. You could dig deeper but the argument gets weaker as you dig.
Tyson vs McCall comes closer to my mind because I actually saw them spar live. If Tyson did avoid McCall, I could certainly see why. The big problem in Team-Tyson, with McCall, is that many of Tyson's sparring partners feared him. McCall clearly had no fear of Tyson.
With Greb and Dempsey, I think the bottom line is that Greb posed a stylistic nightmare for Dempsey. I don't think Dempsey feared Greb but I do believe that Dempsey's manager, Doc Kearns, wanted no part of Dempsey. As in the cases of Pryor-Leonard and McCall-Tyson, there are often people within the camps that want to avoid certain fighters because they feel they have much, or everything to lose and nothing or little to gain.
I'm even more convinced that Team-Tyson avoided George Foreman. Again, I was around many who would have an inside view of whether or not they wanted Tyson to face Foreman. Joe Frazier's manager, Yank Durham, also avoided Sonny Liston and, later, Earnie Shavers, who had run a lengthy string of early knockout wins between 70 and 73, when Durham died.
Harry Greb had defeated many of Dempsey's opponents, including Gene Tunney and "Fat" Willie Meehan, who holds a 2-1-2 series over Dempsey. Greb had always maintained that Tunney would beat Dempsey any day. He spoke as if he knew all of Dempsey's stylistic weaknesses. It's difficult to accept the belief that Greb would have beaten Dempsey in an actual heavyweight fight. However, it becomes a bit clearer that, W,L or D, Harry Greb would have been a difficult style for Dempsey to solve. Dempsey certainly had far more to lose by fighting Greb.
Sparring is one thing...fighting for a title is another and Dempsey would not have been afraid of Greb, but Dempsey's manager and promoter, maybe. Just like Mayweather today, why take chances when there's lots more $$$$$ to be made.
I think it's possible, if it is true, than that's another stain on Dempsey's resume, though I personally think he could have taken Harry.
You are the tough guy who has been in many sparring sessions and boxing matches, why don't you tell us?
I read that Harry really wanted a shot at the HW title and more than held his own in all out sessions.
