I think all of these champions would have a very difficult time with Vitali. He's godawful slow. However, he's durable and makes very good use of his jab. His greatest flaw is that he is cut prone and that he hangs his left very low. However, he uses his height well enough to defend against the punches of these much smaller men.
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I know some don't like to face this but the Klitschkos are just a step ahead in evolution. Than can be beaten but it would certainly not be an easy task for the champions you list here.
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We all love Joe Louis but The Klitschkos are far more skilled than the giant plodders Louis faced in his day.
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Both Klitschkos are prone to clinching and are not 15 round fighters. However, I just don't see an easy task for the former champions.
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Marciano: He would lose to both brothers. There is simply too great a difference in size. Marciano never faced a really big heavyweight.
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Frazier: I also don't see Frazier beating either Klitschko brother. RING Magazine has Frazier winning against Wladimir on points and that is certainly possible, given Wladimir's very cautious nature. Still, I see too great a size deficit for Frazier and I don't see him seriously hurting or even challenging Vitali.
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Dempsey: again, people think of Willard and Firpo. However, again, both Klitschko brothers are far more skilled and much smarter than these lumbering giants Dempsey toppled. Plus Dempsey would not have the benefit of the rules of his day, which favored him heavily. Dempsey loses to both brothers.
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Tyson: I could see Tyson stopping a younger Wladimir. However, it would be more of a challenge against the mature version who was very defensive minded. The problem is that Wladimir doesn't take enough chances. He's too cautious. Tyson could stop him or Wladimir would gain an ugly points victory.
Vitali would be a much tougher opponent for Tyson because he takes a better punch than his brother does and he would use his size to tie Tyson up, while surviving Tyson's attempts to land the big one.
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Louis: Joe might be able to get past Wladimir's jab but that would be a long shot. Again, Louis has toppled men who are Wladimir's size and bigger. However, none had the skill of Wladimir. Louis could land a good one on the jaw and change the fight. But that's not a given. Louis would have a much tougher time with Vitali.
Yes I do.
The Klitschko brothers are big, strong, and I admire their technique.
But boxing is about more than just size, strength and technique.
There is also psychological intimidation, ring intelligence, condition and talent.
I will just pick one you mentioned. Marciano. We are now far enough away from his era that his champion mystique and unbeaten record have been rationalized or largely forgotten. We look at the tapes and see a small man plodding around the ring bent at the waist and wonder why anyone would buy a ticket to see him. Now that boxers are bigger and have better skills, what chance could he possibly have? Etc, etc.
Well, maybe all that is true. We can never know without an actual match. Perhaps the Klitschkos would make Marciano look like a sad little amateur.
I am sure that Ali would destroy either Klitschko. He was far too fast and skilled for either one of them, and far tougher. I suspect that most people would agree with this, and I notice you did not mention Ali yourself, so you might feel the same.
My point is that Ali did spar with Marciano during their famous computer bout which you no doubt are familiar with, and so the prime Ali did have a chance to spar with the washed up older Marciano.
Years later during a television interview with Howard Cosell, Ali was asked about Marciano, and he uncharacteristically commented (to Cosell's amazement) that he was not sure he could beat Marciano, that Rocky had hard punches, that he was better than Frazier, and that "it could go either way".
Now, Ali was bigger than Marciano, had better skills, and had a huge ego. Yet, he was humble pie when talking about him.
If Ali was nervous about Marciano, I wonder what the Klitschkos would feel after a round or two?
I understand the size advantage, but what good is it, when you lack the skills, and never fought anyone worth mentioning. Except for contemplating retirement, past prime. 38 year old Lewis, who TKO'd Vitali, the better brother. Also lets not forget their were guys this big back then.
Whlad was KO'd 3 times, by average guys, and never defeated a prime great.
Vitali quit once, and was finished by a past prime Lewis.
They were greats, and dominated their era, but were extremely slow, had not the great footwork, and we seen more power from Foreman, and Lewis, maybe even Norton, Frazier, Tyson, as well. Louis, Ali, and Holmes would of put a clinic on these guys, they were better in ever area their is.
Depends on which Klitschko and if it would be a 15 round fight or not. I think Vitali would be in with a good shout to beat them all due to his Iron chin and huge size advantage. Vitalis detractors fail to remember how slick he was. His performance against Lewis was one of the greatest losing performance in a long long time. He lost for sure but showed me that he is an ATG, and could hang with anyone.
Wlad's shaky chin puts him at more of a disadvantage against these past legends as they were all warriors, and didn't give a flying **** about their health. I think they would get inside at all costs and smash that glass.
Rocky would get tagged a lot by Wlad, Dempsey too. A prime mike tyson would have a VERY high punchers chance against Wlad. Wlad would be stronger but Tyson's speed doesn't get mentioned enough. Wlad never faced any1 like him. Frazier could have a chance vs vitali but I see wlads speed n power counters fraziers relentless attack
My question would then be; Do you honestly think its "realistic" to suggest The Klitschko Brothers would beat certain fighters simply because they're larger than them.
I have to agree with you in the sense that The Klitschko Brothers are better developed athletes than fighters like Jack Dempsey, I think thats even true when you compare someone like Mayweather to Willie Pep.
Where a lot of fans lose me with this perception that The Klitschko Brothers beat certain fighters like Joe Louis or Mike Tyson based on pure size and that I have to blatantly disagree with.
I'll argue to my death that Wlad doesn't beat a young Mike Tyson, you can argue that his losses were when he's young and that he's moved passed those. Then again my argument would be who has he really fought since then to really test that theory out, who has he fought since Lamon Brewster that would even somewhat resemble a young Mike Tyson.
Back to your question I don't think a lot of the smaller Heavyweights like Rocky Marciano just automatically beat the Klitschko Brothers but I'm not going to magically assume the Klitschko Brothers beat anybody they're taller than neither.
Yes, it is realistic
You give much importance to the size (?). But statistics say otherwise
Tyson defeated Tucker (1987), who at that time was much more plastic and more skillful than Vitali was
Timo Hofmann much lower than Willard and yet went the distance with Vitali
Imagine Jack Dempsey to its full potential (1919) .... grabs the Klitscho brothers and a punch hanging from the lamp. I can not see Vitali go beyond the 5th round with Dempsey
Frazier is another story ........
Both Klitschkos would beat all of them except maybe Louis. Tyson would have a puncher's chance against either. The rest would lose.
I almost never disagree with glactus, in fact he is one of my top ten favorite contributors to this forum, but I have to on this question. I like and respect the Klitschko's and Vitail's accomplishments outside the ring elevate his legacy even higher than a lot of oldtimer;s, and he is clearly superior to Wlad in spite of their records. But the European fan base is blinded by nationalistic infatuation with the brothers, and is ignoring some basic realities when comparing them to champions of the past.
It is almost as if the Pruitty, Sanders, Brewster, Byrd and Lewis fights have been forgotten by Klitschko fans, but we must ask the right questions if we expect a fair and realistic comparison between the Klitschko's and the smaller heavyweights you have listed above.
Can you honestly say with a straight face that Ross Pruitty could have beaten Jersey Joe Walcott or Ezzard Charles let alone Rocky Marciano?
Can you keep from turning you head in jest and still state without smiling that Lamont Brewster could have stood a chance against the likes Eddie Machen, Jerry Quarry or Bob Foster let alone Joe Frazier a man who beat Muhammad Ali?
I have huge respect for Cory Sanders and consider the man a hero God rest his soul, but really, do you think Cory could have beat even Georges Carpentier or Jess Willard let alone Jack Dempsey?
How much trouble really to you think Chris Byrd would have given Tyson?
Seriously if Oliver McCall and Haseem Rahman can KO Lewis what do you think a prime Joe Louis would have done with Lennox's questionable chin, and do any Klitschko supporters question what would happen to Wlad's even more fragile chin against historically deadly punchers like Dempsey, Louis, Frazier, Tyson and especially a historical great like Loius who is listed among the deadliest punchers in history, arguably on par with Liston and Foreman?
Truthfully I don't see Wlad even lasting the distance with any of the fighters you listed, and I loath Mike Tyson and don't consider Mike worthy of being mentioned along side history's historically great champions. Dempsey, Frazier Marciano, were devastating punchers, but they didn't hit as hard as Tyson or especially Joe Louis. Joe Louis was elite, even among the five you named and would have beaten Dempsey, Frazier, Tyson, and without age advantage Marciano enjoyed, would have probably beat Rocky Marciano as well. Age was certainly a factor in Marciano's win over Louis.
A slow, plodding stanup slugger like Vitali, even with his iron chin couldn't be expected to stand up to the power and speed of the five you named. If you are truthful, you also know in you heart of hearts Wlad's chin would shatter like glass against any of the five, Wladmir would get KOed all five times. Vitali might have a chance to finish on his feet with TKO losses against a couple of the five if the refs were merciful, but he Klitschko's most likely finish 0-10 with ten knockout losses to the talent and power of the smaller man, if we are truthful. The only real chance of a Klitschko victory is for Vitali to beat Mike Tyson down, Mike lacked the heart to fight a true champion, and Vitali was superior to Tyson even if both of them did quit on their stools, a choice no true champion would ever make, I believe Vitali might have KOed Tyson before Tyson KOed him, Vitali's chin was better than Wlads, but as much as I loath Tyson, Mike would still be the heavy favorite and Vitali a very live underdog.
I am so tired of keep hearing about Dempsey beating Jess Willard, Louis beating Primo Carnera and Tyson beating some big guys that I don't even know by name. None of these dudes were as skilled, smart, athletic, well-trained and disciplined as the Klitschkos.Not even close and you know it so why even bother to compare them? And what's up with the haters always focusing on the few losses the brothers had early in their career? Why don't you do the same with numerous other champs who had losses in their early in their careers such as Joe Louis, Marvin Hagler, Jack Johnson and so many others. So this golden rule only applies for the Klitschkos for some reason? Why don't you judge them during their prime?
And for Pete's shake, look at the staggering size difference and top daydreaming for once guys!
If size is all that matters, 6-9 260 pounder Ed Too Tall Jones would have been world boxing champion but he quit while the quitting was good. He was 6-0 with 5 KOs when he tried boxing from football but his opponents had a combined 26-38 record. He was being lined up to meet lower ranked contenders in his next fights but he quit boxing in 1980 cold turkey and went back to playing football until his retirement. We can only wonder what could have happened had he continued boxing. His possible opponents at that time included veterans Ernie Shavers, Gerry Coetzee or Kallie Knotzee and Mike Weaver and even then up and coming John Tate, Greg Page and Michael Dokes, He could have figured he might be better off playing in the field than in the ring with those guys.
But back to your question, it is quite realistic for Tyson, Louis, Frazier, Dempsey and Marciano to beat one or both Klitschko if we will situate the brothers in the setting where those fighters with the exception of Tyson fought: 15 rounds, three knockdowns automatic stoppage rule, strictly no excessive holding and clinching.
Given the primordial self-preservation instinct of Wladimir, I think he would have resorted to his now notorious constant holding, pushing and clinching against all and he would have ran the risk of being DQ'd
in the process.
Vitali is braver than his baby bro and that put him in danger of being banged and injured to which he was prone as in the Chris Byrd fight. It was mentioned that Vitali could hang with the best of his era which happened to be then retirement-bound Lennox Lewis who cut him up so badly. Tyson and company all have dynamite on both fists and they were intent on throwing them with mean intention while they try to absorb or deflect the bombs coming their own way. In all his career, Vitali had never faced such type of warrior fighters ready to die in the ring if need be. Most of the foes he fought and beat were all in awe of him and his power. Lewis and Holyfield faced and beat already a shell of the former dynamo that Tyson was in 1986-1989. Their own self-preservation instinct spared them from tasting the punching power still left with that fading warrior. We can only imagine what could have happened had Evander and Lnnox fought Tyson in his prime best. I am focusing on Tyson in this case because of the five mentioned, I think vintage Tyson would have the best chance of knocking out both Vitali and Wladdy with the rest either winning by DQ or by wearing the brothers down and out in extended battles, i repeat over 15 rounds.
I can understand your anger and I agree with you. They always mock the Klitschko Bros, even though they're great champs. I think many believe those punchers could've knocked out Wladimir, because he lost by TKO to Lamon Brewster, who in fact was neither a great fighter nor famous for a big hitter. That's where the myth originated that Wlad has a glass chin and pretty much every hard puncher in boxing history could knock him out. Fact is that Wlad was a greenhorn back then in boxing, he only ran into guys, trying to knock em out. But his style improved alot. Nowadays he's much a better boxer when it comes to style. The myth about his glass chin however is still there because of that loss to Brewster. And what also gives that myth recognition is Wladimir's style(he constantly tries to avoid punches against his chin with his crouched back and jab style). Fact is that Jack Dempsey and Rocky Marciano were much smaller than Wladimir or Vitali and weigh much less. Yes, Lemon Brewster could knock Wlad out, but we talk here about a 6ft 2in guy, who weighed 226 pounds. I think that myth about Wlad's glass chin isn't true. Jack Dempsey was dropped by one punch of 6ft, 189 pounds Gene Tunney in their first fight. Yet they rate Jack higher when it comes to chin. Show me a guy of Dempsey's time who could take a punch of a 6ft 2in guy, weighing 226 pounds! Brewster was bigger than James Jeffries who would've murdered Jack Dempsey in the ring(even Jack himself said so)! It's known that Tyson avoided George Foreman, who only made his comeback to fight Mike. Mike destroyed big guys, but none of them had a chin like Foreman or was as big as Big George. And the Klitschko Bros. were even bigger! Forget about Rocky Marciano fighting and winning against the Klitschko Bros.(Rocky was catched and thrown around like a doll by Jersey Joe Walcott, who was not even near the size of the Klitschkos and could still drop Rocky with one single punch!). They would've beaten Jack Dempsey aswell. Jack fought against Jeff Willard, who was a bum and had no defense at all. Plus Big Jeff became only champ, because Jack Johnson staged a fight(Johnson let him win, because the goverment made pressure against Johnson). They say Jack Johnson could've stopped the fight at any time. Frazier winning against the Klitschko Bros. is also very unlikely, since Frazier got destroyed by George Foreman(who was not only smaller and weighed less than the Klitschkos, but was also a weaker puncher-just watch at his KO ratio and compare it to the one of Wlad!) And Joe Louis almost lost to Buddy Bear(who had the same height, but weighed less than the Klitschko Bros. and was way weaker in punching power and way worse when it comes to style). Louis lost to Max Schmeling, who was a midget compared to the Klitschkos. Yes Sir, the Klitschko Bros. would beat all of the listed fighters. The only fighters who could beat the Klitschkos prime for prime are Muhammad Ali, Lennox Lewis, James J. Jeffries, Sonny Liston, Evander Holyfield, George Foreman, Larry Holmes and Riddick Bowe.
Realistic my white a$$. A bunch of ni-gg-ers and their delusional white drunk fans say such crap only
